Thoughts on Spider-Man and the MCU

I know I said I was going to try to blog more, and I know I promised something “next week,” and that was like three weeks ago. But, you know, stuff… I know, whatever.

Anyway, I did mention something about Spider-Man and the MCU, and I may not have pissed off all 4 people who read this blog with my last post. So here goes: Why Spider-Man will never be in the MCU (and why he doesn’t belong there)!

So, there’ve been a lot of rumors/speculation/expressions of desire regarding the Spider-Man and Marvel’s movies. A lot of fans are unhappy with what Sony’s doing with the movies right now, they feel like Spider-Man is an essential part of the Marvel Universe, and they want to see him on the movie Avengers.

Guys, it’s not gonna happen.

Full disclosure: I really like the Marc Webb Spider-Man stuff. (More on that in a bit.)

The main reason why I think it won’t ever happen? Spider-Man has nothing to offer Marvel. The current slate of Spider-Man movies aren’t out-grossing anything Marvel’s putting out right now. So are they going to include a character they don’t own in their movies, that as far as they’re concerned isn’t likely to increase their profits at all, and then have to share what they’re making with Sony?

And think of this: Spider-Man has had two movies come out already. Marvel has put out ten movies and a season-and-a-half of a TV show (with several more movies and four short Netflix series in the pipeline). At no point thus far has anyone in the MCU mentioned a guy dressed as a spider flitting around NYC. No one’s said anything about that time a bunch of cops were turned into lizard people and the top of a skyscraper was knocked over. No mention of Oscorp.

In the same vein, when Electro was destroying Times Square, no Avengers? No SHIELD? At the end of ASM 2, when the Rhino shows up, it is specifically implied that Spidey is the only one capable of defeating such a foe. It’s one thing to leave the different heroes out of each other’s films, it’s another thing entirely to make a plot point out of there being no other superheroes around.

Look, I’m not saying it’s impossible to deal with those issues. Certainly some clever screenwriting, maybe a dedicated episode of Agents of SHIELD. I’m just saying, it’s not worth the trouble Marvel Studios would have to go to, considering it’s a character they don’t even own.

So what if they get the rights to the character back? Well, that’s even less likely. Sony just made another movie, they’re going to have those rights for a while, unless Marvel’s willing to pay for them. And, again, why would they be? People were complaining about the first Marc Webb Spider-Man being a reboot of a movie franchise that was only ten-year-old. They’re not going to complain about this? People aren’t going to be confused with a new Spidey so soon after the old one?

It’s just plain not worth the effort.

And here’s why I think it shouldn’t happen:

Spider-Man doesn’t belong in the MCU. He just doesn’t fit.

What’s one of Spider-Man’s most defining characteristics? His secret identity. Juggling Peter Parker and Spider-Man is an essential aspect of his personality. So much so that when they had him reveal his identity in the comics, they decided it was such a bad idea they immediately retconned it in a way that most people consider to be the clumsiest and most ill-conceived retcon in comics history, even as they almost unanimously agree it was absolutely necessary.

The problem is that secret identities don’t exist in the MCU. The very first Marvel movie ended with Tony Stark revealing himself to be Iron Man, and that was enough to set the standard for the MCU. Everyone knows Captain America is Steve Rogers. Thor is just Thor. That’s not a costume, that’s just what he wears. Probably most people don’t know who Hawkeye and Black Widow are, in the same way that I don’t know who the SEAL team members who took out Bin Laden are.

I hear a lot of comments about the Civil War movie along the lines of “How are they going to do Civil War when they don’t have Spider-Man and there aren’t any secret identities?” Obviously it’ll be about something else. The Civil War event wasn’t about secret identities. It was about a rift in the superhero community. A civil war, if you will. They can have that rift be about anything they want. They can have it be about Stark wanting to head SHIELD and Cap wanting to keep it shut down, for example.

The other reason Spider-Man doesn’t really belong is, to be honest, he’s too well known for the MCU. One of the biggest factors in what made the MCU what it is is that Marvel didn’t have the rights to their biggest characters.

Without Spider-Man and the X-Men, Marvel had to make people care about characters they’d never heard of before. Sure, if you were a comic book fan, you knew who Iron Man was, but if you weren’t, you probably just thought of that Black Sabbath song (or that really weird Japanese movie).

They had to build people’s awareness of these characters, and draw them in, with well-crafted movies. They did that the only way it can be done: by bringing in people with a clear vision and allowing them to see that vision through. When I first heard they were making an Iron Man movie, I genuinely didn’t care. When I heard Jon Favreau was directing, and RDJ was playing Stark, that’s when I started to get excited.

I’m starting to meander away from the point here. The point is that the MCU thrives on characters that wider audiences aren’t familiar with. Stories they can tell from scratch. Probably the weakest point of Man of Steel for me was that I was expected to care about and understand the characters without the movie doing the work or making me care. Like they decided “Well, that’s Lois Lane, you know who Lois Lane is, right?” No, I don’t know who this Lois Lane is, you have to show me.

Meandering again. I think the point is adequately made. There’s just no reason for the MCU to care about Spider-Man. That’s why he belongs over there in his own world, with his own movies.

And, look, those movies are good movies. I never read the early Spidey stuff when I was young, so I never really cared about Gwen Stacey. But man, I believed in that relationship. They sold that. And Garfield is a great Peter Parker. And the action is very well-done. These are just some solid superhero movies.

But, guys (talking to Sony this time), Spider-Man simply doesn’t have an Avengers-style franchise in him. All the best Spider-Man characters need to orbit around Spider-Man. Those spinoffs just aren’t going to be able to sustain themselves.

Seriously, I usually defend Hollywood and the motives of film studios, but this habit of trying to turn every goddamn thing into the Avengers is idiotic, and it needs to stop. You’re going to destroy the movie industry. Again.

Also, despite everything I just said, I kind of really want the new Fantastic Four movie to tank, like hard enough that Marvel gets the rights back in time to cram an FF teaser into Black Panther. Because Doctor Doom is the greatest villain in the Marvel Universe, and he really belongs over there with everyone else. And yes, that kind of contradicts everything I just said about Spidey, but really, those movies were never anywhere near as popular as any of the Spider-Man movies, even the really bad one.

Okay, end of rant. Assuming you’ve made it this far, I’ll have a pretty good announcement in a few days. And it won’t be 1300 words long, I promise.

That’s all. Next time, I’ll explain why Agents of SHIELD is a great show, and also the worst thing to happen to the MCU. Maybe. That one might be tough to get through, even for me.

Some thoughts on events

Hey all, been a while since I posted anything that wasn't just promotion. I've been incredibly busy lately, not least of all because we had a baby about three and a half months ago, and I've had a number of projects to work on as well.

I'd like to start using this blog more, specifically for comic-related thoughts and things like that, assuming I can find the time.

In that spirit, there's something that's bugged me for a long time now, and I wanted to post something about it. This isn't like a big social issue or anything, just some standard bitching about comics, and it'll probably be a bit disjointed because I'm writing this in bed while my daughter sleeps next to me, hoping I can finish before she wakes up.

So, anyway, Marvel's been putting out a lot of teasers lately, and while I've been seeing a decent amount of speculation about what they might be about, trying to figure out what next year's big events will be, are they all tied into Secret Wars, etc, what I've mostly been seeing are fans bitching about it. Talking about event fatigue and how much of a mess Marvel is making of everything. Talking about a "Crisis-style" reboot. Things like that.

Look, I get it. Events can be annoying. They rarely live up to the hype. Even the best events really only start out strong, and always seem to end on more a whimper than anything. They make these "huge, sweeping changes" to the status-quo that never last long enough to really sink in because they just lead into to the next event and it's "huge, sweeping changes." It almost seems like they're more of a tool to make the changes in the first place than they are any real storytelling device.

(I know a lot of people put a lot of hard work into these events, so I don't want to sound like I'm dumping on them, there have been many events that I've very much enjoyed, I just think that they're a tough thing to get to work quite how the publishers usually want them to. Especially when the ending is more often anymore just a set-up for stories to come.)

So I understand that they're annoying. I've dropped many titles solely because they lost their momentum and got dragged into these events. I've tried to get on board with the events only to find that I lost interest halfway through. (And lest you think I'm picking on Marvel, I dropped a lot of my DC titles for similar reasons, and I think every September was basically "lose all momentum on the storyline you've been getting invested in" month.)

But, you know who I bet is more annoyed by the teasers and the event? Marvel. They have to put out teasers to keep people talking about them. They have to have regular writer's retreats to keep all these different threads straight. I'm certain they'd like to let their stories and characters build on their own, in their own titles, instead of having to have these events, one after another.

But every time someone brings it up, the response from anyone at Marvel is basically that the events book always sell. Probably better than the regular books. So I'm betting that everyone that complains about the teasers, and constant events, still goes out and buys them.

There's a type of reader that I'm sure I've complained about before. The sort of reader who will complain about a title, but keep buying it because it's their favorite character, or because they've been buying it since they were a kid. The type of reader who will buy every Batman title, ensuring that there are at least four on the shelves at all times, even if only one of them is any good.

These are the people who complain about renumbering a series to coincide with a new creative team or direction. These are the people who complain about a costume change, no matter how stupid the old costume (or, really, the very concept of costumes) is, because it's "a classic." These are the people who flip out over ever new storyline, every character that isn't treated exactly the way they want them to be.

(To be clear, I'm not specifically talking about readers who send death threats to creators, or even readers who get angry about "SJWs" and their "agenda" regarding black or Muslim or female superheroes. That's a whole different issue and one that I hope I don't need to preach to anyone here about.)

These are the people who buy every issue of every event, and hate every issue of very event. They buy it because they know it will "matter," and they have to be able to fill their knowledge-box with every factoid available to them. They hate it because it changes things, major things. They hate it because their favorite character didn't save the day, or someone got beat by someone else that, according to their knowledge-box shouldn't be able to defeat them. They hate it because they hate events, and it's an event, and therefore they hate it.

But even that strikes me as a disingenuous characterization. Because the truth is, I don't understand these people. I don't understand why they even read comics, or watch movies or TV shows. Certainly not for the same reason I do.

I read comics because I enjoy stories, and I enjoy comics as a storytelling medium. I read superhero comics because I enjoy superheroes, and I enjoy the worlds that have been created and the scope of them, and the unique storytelling opportunities afforded within them. I don't care if it "matters" so long as the story is well-told. I don't care how much it "matters" if the story is poorly-told.

I know it sounds like I'm putting myself on a pedestal here, and yes, to a certain extent I am placing myself above the sort of people I'm talking about. Maybe that's wrong, maybe I should be content to do my own thing and leave them to do theirs.

But when I hear the same, predictable complaints from people who are, at least in my estimation, causing the very problem they're bemoaning, I can't help but get frustrated and annoyed.

I guess you can take comfort, at least, in the fact that I'm pretty sure no one will read this.

Next Week: Why Spider-Man should never show up in the MCU! (maybe, if I feel like writing it).